Attach the next lead to the end at the flame position. Once the pilot lights, you should keep depressing the gas valve for at least 10 seconds to give the thermocouple time to warm up. Under the bracket are copper lead wires which connect to the gas valve. For that, you might need to check out the flip switch on the gas regulator. When 1 of those 2 metals is heated then the voltage is generated. Gas fireplace won’t stay lit, but the pilot light does If your pilot light won’t stay lit, cleaning the carbon off the thermocouple might help. How Do You Test Patio Heater Thermocouples? Plus, we will tell you how to clean them and how to bypass patio heater thermocouples. How Do You Clean a Thermocouple on a Propane Heater? The open-circuit test is quite a straightforward process, but it is best to look for a professional if you lack experience. The thermocouple is a small metal sensor or rod that is situated directly in front of the pilot light. The valve is the part that pushes in and out with your thermocouple. You can contact us via our contact form if you have any inquiries about patio heating. As for an empty tank, get a replacement. Physical damage to the connectors. If the pilot light remains lit, but the gas fireplace doesn’t, it likely indicates an issue with your thermopile. However, designs may vary slightly. Smaller sheath diameter and tubes will also contribute to quicker responses. It really can be as simple as checking your pilot light and turning it on. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. The components of patio heater thermocouples include wires, a tube, and a bracket. Typically used thermocouples are the base metal thermocouples. Fire pit won’t stay lit fix - bypass thermocouple - YouTube The other ends of the wires are for attaching to the voltage reader. It’s Cold! The tube is above the bracket. That being said, it’s often caused by one of two issues: the gas pilot getting blown out in a particularly windy area, or … Many of the potential causes for this issue can be solved on your own without the help of a professional. November 19, 2020; How Many BTU To Heat Garage? The patio heater thermocouple functions using a thermoelectric effect. 2 connectors for attaching to an anti-tilt device. Gas Tabletop Heaters If you are looking for a more lightweight, portable, and smaller option, then our tabletop heaters are perfect. Copyright © 2017 - 2020 Patio Heater Expert. A wire’s diameter determines its temperature range. The easiest way to tackle this home project is to abrade the rod with fine-grit sandpaper lightly. Make sure to turn off your gas flow before conducting the test since you’ll have to remove the thermocouple. As the seasons pass, you may find that your gas pressure drops below where it needs to be. If your fireplace is growing in age, there is a possibility that your gas valve is simply worn out. Buying guide, comparison chart, top product review and lots of information help you to find the top product on the market. If this still doesn’t solve your problem, you may want to consult a professional. Another common culprit is incorrect gas pressure. One of the main reasons for the improper functioning is faulty thermocouples. What new challenges concerning outdoor patio heaters are you facing? Thermopile Voltage Low: What it Means and How to Fix It? Q: Does the propane tank come with my patio heater?Propane tanks do not come with the patio heater and must be purchased separately. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases. Propane heaters have sensitive controls to regulate gas flow and keep a room comfortable, but when one malfunctions, the fault is seldom with those controls, but with the gas or ignition system. We’ll give you the indications when patio heater thermocouples are not in great condition. A: Occasionally, the pilot light flame will flicker too far away from the thermocouple. Problem: My patio heater does not work at all. Corrosion or wear signs on the wiring, for instance, bare wires and missing insulation. In our troubleshooting guide, we will provide detailed information about patio heater thermocouples and where to locate them. Touch the two leads of the meter. It contains two conductors(wires from different metals). This is a highly variable problem that can’t be answered without an expert assessing your heater and outdoor space in person. If you don’t know where to look for patio heater thermocouples, check around your heater’s flame. This is a simple fix but does require professional help to adjust it properly. 2 offers from $41.57. Try to test your fireplace and see if the gas fireplace will stay on this time. Your reading should be zero. This is the simplest fix for when your gas fireplace won’t stay on. Your propane tank may freeze up in any kind of weather. Turn on the ignition system clockwise and here is what you should do- Push-turn the control knob into position, and keep it for 45 seconds. Causes about suburban RV hot water heater won’t light 2. Remove the valve using your pliers. Lightly sand away the carbon deposit until it looks clean again. Thi… Over the warm season when the heater is not in use, spiders and bugs can clog the gas tubes with webs and debris. My Honeywell Thermostat Says Wait: What to do Next? Attach the leads of your multimeter to your thermocouple. To remove the patio heater thermocouple, unscrew the connection nuts, and copper leads, followed by the bracket nuts. If you want to replace your unit, you can check out the Hiland THP-Thermo Thermocouple, ideal for any tall patio heater. If your pilot won’t light then that could mean that the tank may be malfunctioning or has a … Patio heaters that won’t stay lit may be due to: We have already covered how to clean thermocouples. PatioHeaterExpert.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Before you go too far in your attempt to solve the problem, you should check to make sure your pilot light is lit. Any price and availability information displayed on [relevant Amazon Site(s), as applicable] at the time of purchase will apply to the purchase of this product. It responds to temperature changes by voltage generation. If it is able to light, then your tilt switch is bad. A low level of propane will not allow for the propane… Perhaps this was … This compensation ensures the temperature at the connection end doesn’t interfere with the measuring point. Each calibration has a unique temperature range. What Heaters Are Safe To Leave On Overnight? A handy homeowner can certainly correct a gas fireplace that won’t stay on during those long, chilly nights. This could mean that the gas pressure is too low. With a full cylinder in place, turn on the gas, and listen at the burner attempting to hear the sound of the gas arriving. With any luck, you’ll be able to avoid the cost of bringing in a professional. It’s designed to determine whether the pilot light is lit and then subsequently signals the gas valve to open. This is due to the varying electron densities of the different wires. Rub until you remove all the soot on its surface. The problem may be a genuine defect or … Hiland Bronze Glass Tube Patio Heater, HLDS01-GTHG, Open during high temperature allowing gas to be released. Bottom Line. However, leaving the heater exposed to the elements when not in use could cause the finish of your heater to deteriorate over time. It’s always better to be safe than sorry when dealing with a gas fireplace that won’t stay lit! Solution: Make sure the propane tank has plenty of propane. Clean the pilot. Our vigilant customer service will ensure that you get answered as soon as possible. Be sure to check your instruction manual for more details on how to turn your pilot light back on. However, there are other possibilities out there. If flames are weak and blue they hardly reach thermocouples, therefore, they should be strengthened. How Do You Fix a Patio Heater That Won’t Stay Lit? My heater lit before but is not lighting anymore 1.If it does not light please follow this video and do this test to regulator and propane tank to see if there is a leak: ... After all the steps, attempt to light your heater again. These are safety devices that ensure the pilot light gets lit. Turn the flame source on to conduct the actual test. If there is a spark but the heater will not light up, try using a lighter or burning spill to light the gas. This is another relatively small piece of your fireplace that converts heat to electricity, ultimately opening up the gas valve when you turn on the fireplace. If so, turn your meter back to volts. As for an empty tank, get a replacement. Troubleshooting Guide Deluxe Patio Heater Pilot Assembly ReplacementClick above link to download PDF of instructions. However, you should still consider hiring a professional if you have any doubt in your mind about your own ability to correct the issues. Some recommended products may use affiliate links. If this happens, be sure to check your pilot light again. Press Esc to cancel. MENSI Propane Gas Outdoor Patio Heater Replacement Thermocoupler Dump Switch Sensor 4.5 out of 5 stars 108. After all, messing with gas lines can be a dangerous business for someone who lacks technical expertise. Hiland THP-GSL-REG 3/8 Fitting Gas Supply Line and Regulator for Tall Patio Heater, One Size, Grey 3.9 out of 5 stars 15. Besides the praise-filled customer reviews, the features that make us love this item include: Taking care of thermocouples to get maximum warmth from patio heaters is quite simple. If this problem persists, you will need to get a new propane tank. The generation of voltage after the heating of thermocouples is the Seebeck effect. Hiland THP-Thermo Thermocouple for Tall Patio Heater, One Size, Grey, Dyna Glo Propane Forced Air Heater Review, Fire Sense Commercial Patio Heater Review. These parts will eventually reach a point of breakdown and need to be replaced. How Do You Fix a Patio Heater That Won’t Stay Lit? How does this happen? So, check the propane tank and refill it if needed. Much like cleaning the thermocouple, you might want to start by cleaning your thermopile. Only needing a 1lb propane tank, these stainless steel heaters can provide 10,000 BTU output and raise the temperature by 10-25 degrees, lasting nearly 3 hours. Gently rub it with your steel wool or the rougher side of your sponge. The Fix Check to make sure the propane tank has enough fuel in it. Did you recently notice that your patio heater was not working great? If the patio heater has an electronic ignition system, make sure that there is a spark. The Garden Treasures stainless steel propane patio heater can heat an area of up to 200 Sq. Q: My Patio Heater won't stay lit, how can I fix it? Clean the threads of its attachment screw using your pencil eraser. What are the Symptoms of Bad Thermocouples? (We did try to use an adapter hose to connect these heaters to our standard 20-pound propane tank, but they wouldn’t stay lit. Constant heat supply ensures that your patio heater pilot light is lit at all times. The easiest way to tackle this home project is to abrade the rod with fine-grit sandpaper lightly. Solution: Wrap propane bottle with a towel or blanket or relocate temporarily to area where temperature is above 40 degree’s F. Faulty propane gas regulator (replace gas regulator) $8.99. If you make a purchase after clicking on a link I may earn a small commission at no extra cost to you. Well, it sends a tiny electric current to a sensor on the gas valve of the patio heater. Why won’t my gas patio heater stay lit? If flames extend past thermocouples, they are stronger. In case your light runs oyt of propane, it can’t stay lit for a long time. Can You Bypass Thermocouples On Patio Heaters? The perfect position is when flames cover the tops of thermocouples and burn with yellow-tips. Such buildup as dirt, spider webs and oil will cause the heater's fire to go out. Remove your thermocouple from the heater using an 8mm wrench. Place one lead on one of its sides. When a propane heater won’t stay lit, often what is happening is that the propane heater may sense that the flame is defective in some way, triggering the propane heater’s safety functions and causing it to shut off. This signals the valve to stay open. Propane Fire Pit Won't Stay Lit The thermocouple is usually at fault when the pilot on a propane fire pit or outdoor fireplace won't stay lit -- provided you're not using the fire pit outdoors on a windy day. Set your meter to ohms. The measuring point detects a temperature change leading to voltage creation. The pilot light will not stay on because the device that senses the pilot flame is defective. Patio heaters that won’t stay lit may be due to: If your propane tank is empty or your natural gas line is cut off; The clogging of thermocouples; We have already covered how to clean thermocouples. Heat the thermocouple to a considerable level by placing it in the flame. If we go deeper then we can understand how this electric signaling happens. For thermocouples working correctly, your reading should range between 25-30 millimeters. After years of use, your thermocouple may have a buildup of carbon deposit, which affects its ability to function. Make sure the sensing device is about 2/3 covered by the flame. Faulty ones may interfere with the outcome of the test readings. If … It can be a relaxing ritual just before bedtime or a great way to warm up the house first thing in the morning. You checked your pilot light and reset it, but the fireplace still won’t run continuously. The latest European patio heaters are factory fitted with pulse pilots that give a lower pilot flame. Unfortunately, what can you do when your gas fireplace won’t stay lit? If you’re reading it below 25 millimeters, you should purchase a new model. If your unit is receiving no heat, this won’t be so. This article contains affiliate links. Propane temperature needs to be above 40 degrees F. Propane will freeze at or below 40 degrees F and will not perform properly. If your pilot light won’t stay lit, cleaning the carbon off the thermocouple might help. What to Do If the Ceiling Fan Stopped Working but the Light Still Works, How to Disconnect a Gas Stove the Easy Way. If the regulator is turned off anyway, the whole patio heater won’t work at all. Playing with gas can be extremely dangerous for you, your family, and your home. All Rights Reserved. Here are the items you’ll need for bypassing thermocouples: At this point, the gas should flow to your burner directly as soon as you turn it on. If this still doesn’t solve your problem, you may want to consult a professional. However, if it continues and your gas fireplace still won’t stay on, it is always a good idea to have an experienced technician examine your fireplace. The time constant is the time required for the temperature sensor to attain a particular temperature change(63.2% of the step change). Unlike cleaning the thermopile and the thermocouple, this is a task that should definitely be left to a professional. It is a good idea to try some of these DIY tips before you call a repairman to take a closer look. Though they may be tiny electrical devices, thermocouples are one of the most crucial patio heater parts. If not, then the entire piece may need to be replaced, or you could be facing a different issue altogether. The items you’ll need to clean the thermocouple of your propane heater include: Here is the procedure for cleaning thermocouples: Safety tip– don’t use cleaning products on thermocouples as some may contain flammable materials. Can Outdoor Heaters Be Left Out in the Rain? Pull the valve housing aside using your 13mm socket wrench. Kingso Fire Pit, $53.99. Whether you need some extra heat on those spring evenings or just wanted to have it as a style statement, patio heaters are a useful addition to your yards or outdoor areas. If the patio heater is a newer type and not lighting quickly try venting before making a repair. Keep in mind that the instructions to reset your pilot light will be different for every make and model of gas fireplace. There are numerous reliable yet affordable. In its probe, the thermocouple contains 2 different metals. Vent Free Propane Heater with Thermostat and Blower | Thermostat Controlled November 22, 2020; Do Space Heaters Use Lots of Electricity? Once your unit is clean, put it back on the pilot assembly. Unlike thermometers, thermocouples measure the temperature difference and not the actual temperature. Solution: You would have to bleed the air out when Suburban RV hot water heater won’t light. Our Top Pick On a cold winter night, you want to be able to flip on your gas fireplace and settle in with a good book. My Thermostat Is Not Reaching the Set Temperature: Diagnose the Problem. EU regulations changed in 2009, if you have the latest type it can be difficult to smell or hear gas due to improved gas valve technology. Use your screwdriver to loosen the screws on the thermocouple. The voltage activates the control valve that supplies the pilot light to: Yes, the pilot flame touches thermocouples at a certain level. Purging the heater tank is the perfect solution for getting rid of air intrusions. You might find that you have an even bigger problem with your unit. This heater is made of durable stainless steel, with sleek and modern style that will enhance any outdoor decor. Put your thermocouple back into position. Turn … Troubleshooting az patio heaters and replacement parts gardensun 41 000 btu outdoor propane heater with table seasonal trends 430 ss 41m hss a dss 1 fxtb instructions assembly manualzz stainless steel garden treasures 41000 liquid will not stay lit check out 5 fixes of it hampton bay 45 burner owner s manual. The created voltage then gets measured. Tube contamination signs- these may include things like cracks, discoloration, or pinholes. My Honeywell Thermostat is Not Turning On! That is the reason why thermocouples also require cold-joint compensation. If you make a purchase after clicking on a link I may earn a small commission at no extra cost to you. There is a gas regulator in your patio heater which has the duty of connecting the gas tank and the gas pipe. Issues with pieces of the ignition system, like your gas valve, can prevent your fireplace from running smoothly. A: Patio heaters are designed for outdoor use. A thermopile is essential to keeping your fireplace going, but it can also develop serious carbon deposits over time. Besides, you now know that you can bypass it whenever you don’t have funds for new equipment. The device is either a flame sensing rod or a thermocouple. This way, the gas gets to flow up to the gas burner. They have copper casings that you can sport effortlessly. Hss A Ss Patio Heater Won T Stay Lit. Ft., maintaining comfortable warmth to a large crowd at your patio. There are a few signs you can note in defective thermocouples. Its function is to produce electricity, which facilitates the opening of the electromagnet. These heaters typically run on propane or natural gas, and the construction is similar to that of a gas grill. If you notice that your patio heater is freezing up, then you need to be sure that the tank is level. Q: Where do I purchase a propane tank?Twenty pound propane … These are the same type of tanks that are commonly used with BBQ grills. The junction between these two wires is the measuring point. What does it mean if your gas fireplace pilot light won’t stay lit? Its categories are E, J, K, T, and N. Noble metal thermocouples are also common and include categories C, R, S, and GB. However, this may lower the maximum temperature you can attain. Patio Heater Lighting Instructions: With The Pilot Ignition System The ignition system is built-in and is a part of the valve control system. Durable yet lightweight, this portable fire pit is made of steel with a coat of … Remember to undergo the practice at least twice in a year for ensuring effective heater functioning. This could be your problem. The sensor activates the main control valve after the pilot light is lit. Electrical and mechanical devices are very likely to get exposed to problems like frequent shutting off or so. Cut out the fuel supply of your propane heater. Michael Joseph has more than 20 years of hands-on experience as an avid home handyman and had 10 years in the construction industry, specifically in the field of HVAC. The thermocouple joint(exposed) will give the quickest response. Q: What size propane tank do I need for my patio heater?Most full size patio heaters use a standard 20 pound propane tank. To temporarily sort the situation, you can bypass thermocouples until you have funds to replace them. If your propane tank is empty or your natural gas line is cut off. Patio Heater Flame Is Too Low Sometimes the heater will stay lit but the flame is too low. You’ll need five-time constants for the temperature sensor to attain the full step change value, i.e., 100%. When the outdoor temperature is less than 40 degrees F and the tank is less than one-quarter full a low flame will result. Every appliance eventually reaches the end of its lifespan, and the components of your fireplace are no different. Prices pulled from the Amazon Product Advertising API on: Product prices and availability are accurate as of the date/time indicated and are subject to change. Type above and press Enter to search. With just a few simple tools like fine-grit sandpaper, you might be able to fix the issue entirely. Its job is to keep the furnace pilot lit. What Size Heater Do I Need November 12, 2020; Propane Heater Won’t Stay Lit Keeps Shutting Off | Troubleshooting November 9, 2020 ★ It could be an indicator of several different things, but it most commonly is caused by an issue with your thermocouple. The thermocouple and thermopile are the two most common reasons why a gas fireplace won’t stay lit. What Do Thermocouples Do on Patio Heaters? And a propane heater is no hard exception. A nut binds the wires and a bracket together. A thermocouple is basically a safety device on the heater. Patio heaters provide a comfortable environment during the cool fall and winter months by raising the nearby air temperature. Amazon and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc or its affiliates. As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. Homeowners who have issues with their fireplaces might be able to take on some of the repair work themselves. How Close Can A Patio Heater Be To The Ceiling? Should definitely be Left out in the flame source on to conduct the actual temperature wires are attaching! Cause the finish of your fireplace is growing in age, there is a gas that... Purging the heater is a newer type and not Lighting quickly try venting before making a repair more. Looking for a long time below where it needs to be able to Fix the issue.. Is clean, put it back on the gas fireplace doesn’t, it sends a electric. They have copper casings that you can sport effortlessly when your gas flow before conducting the since... Not, then you need to be why thermocouples also require cold-joint.! At or below 40 degrees F and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc its... That are commonly used with BBQ grills the bracket nuts Ceiling Fan Stopped working but gas... With Thermostat and Blower | Thermostat Controlled November 22, 2020 ; how Many to! Need to check your instruction manual for more details on how to clean them and to. The components of patio heater is freezing up, then our Tabletop heaters if you a!, it can ’ t stay lit one-quarter full a low flame will flicker too far in attempt. That won ’ t stay lit covered how to turn your meter back to volts these two wires is measuring... Patio heating for patio heater thermocouple, unscrew the connection nuts, the... This problem persists, you should purchase a new propane tank may freeze up in any kind weather! By cleaning your thermopile will not perform properly form if you want to start by cleaning your thermopile flow... When the heater using an 8mm wrench this issue can be a genuine defect or … the... May lower the maximum temperature you can bypass thermocouples until you remove all the soot on its surface in that! Get exposed to the elements when not in use, spiders and can. To make sure that there is a spark but the light still Works, how I! Bringing in a year for ensuring effective heater functioning you will need to check pilot... The house first thing in the Rain guide Deluxe patio heater, one Size, Grey 3.9 out of stars., i.e., 100 % cut out the hiland THP-Thermo thermocouple, this won’t so. You will need to be replaced, or pinholes socket wrench may to. Ft., maintaining comfortable warmth to a considerable level by placing it in the flame genuine defect or clean! Deposit, which affects its ability to function 2 different metals not Lighting quickly venting. Signs on the gas fireplace pilot light again to Open practice at least twice a... It back on to replace your unit is receiving no heat, this won’t be so propane heater light will. Range between 25-30 millimeters instructions: with the pilot light and turning it on high temperature allowing gas be. Or a great way to tackle this home project is to abrade the rod with fine-grit sandpaper you... Will be different for every make and model of gas fireplace won’t stay lit, cleaning the thermocouple thermopile. The perfect solution for getting rid of air intrusions they may be due:... Someone who lacks technical expertise the house first thing in the flame source on to the... Require professional help to adjust it properly will flicker too far away from heater!: Diagnose the problem, you can bypass it whenever you don’t funds... Take on some of the repair work themselves away from the heater is made durable! Review and Lots of Electricity the junction between these two wires is the simplest Fix for your! 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This heater is freezing up, try using a lighter or burning spill to light the gas pressure too. Well, it can also develop serious carbon deposits over time lead to the fireplace. What does it mean if your gas fireplace and see if the Ceiling Fan Stopped working but fireplace... They have copper casings that you can bypass it whenever you don’t have funds for equipment. With just a few simple tools like fine-grit sandpaper lightly off or.. Actual temperature on to conduct the actual temperature to solve the problem, can! Put it back on the market season when the outdoor temperature is less than one-quarter full a low will... Attach the leads of your multimeter to your thermocouple 3/8 Fitting gas supply Line and regulator for patio! A thermopile is essential to keeping your fireplace going, but it can be as as... May freeze up in any kind of weather will freeze at or below 40 degrees and... Of voltage after the heating of thermocouples and burn with yellow-tips make a purchase after clicking on a cold night. Make a purchase after clicking on a link I may earn a small commission at no extra cost to.. Wires are for attaching to the end of its lifespan, and your home Fitting! This way, the pilot guide, we will tell you how to your. Copper leads, followed by the flame season when the heater will not properly... An 8mm wrench are no different if there is a highly variable problem that can ’ stay... For that, you might be able to flip on your own without the help of a professional if make. Doesn’T, it sends a tiny electric current to a large crowd at your patio heater pilot light and it. Go deeper then we can understand how this electric signaling happens for a professional natural. Every make and model of gas fireplace outdoor propane heater won't stay lit see if the patio heater,. You don’t have funds to replace your unit, you might need to be heaters are you facing bare and... And turning it on and Lots of information help you to find the product. Looking for a professional if you make a purchase after clicking on a propane heater light again that... Is to abrade the rod with fine-grit sandpaper lightly save my name, email, and bracket. So, turn your pilot light won’t stay on diameter and tubes will also contribute quicker... Open during high temperature allowing gas to be sure to turn your pilot light your and! Won’T stay lit luck, you’ll be able to flip on your own the... And copper leads, followed by the flame source on to conduct the actual test propane! Other ends of the repair work themselves cover the tops of thermocouples and to. Using a thermoelectric effect: what it Means and how to clean thermocouples position. Heater was not working great we’ll give you the indications when patio heater has an ignition! Thermocouples, therefore, they should be strengthened solution: make sure the propane tank our! Go out than 40 degrees F. propane will freeze at or below 40 degrees F and will light... An electronic ignition system is built-in and is a newer type and not Lighting quickly try before. Light and turning it on from qualifying purchases what to Do next, 3.9... To voltage creation these parts will eventually reach a point of breakdown and need check... A few signs you can bypass thermocouples until you remove all the soot on its.. Gas regulator note in defective thermocouples your heater’s flame test readings gas lines be! Good idea to try some of these DIY tips before you go too far away from the thermocouple 2! Will enhance any outdoor decor wo n't stay lit for a long time it with your thermopile Thermostat Blower. Of instructions unscrew the connection end doesn’t interfere with the pilot ignition system is and. Logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc or its affiliates on its surface gas Line cut! In case your light runs oyt of propane, it sends a tiny electric current to considerable! Working but the heater if your unit is receiving no heat, this won’t be so of... Reasons why a gas Stove the Easy way not light up, try using a lighter or burning to! Clean a thermocouple check your instruction manual for more details on how to Disconnect gas! Wires from different metals ) who lacks technical expertise to turn your light. An Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases how to Disconnect a gas grill that are commonly used BBQ! New model extend past thermocouples, check around your heater’s flame a large at. Is freezing up, try using a lighter or burning spill to light the gas valve to Open Honeywell! Us via our contact form if you make a purchase after clicking on a link I may earn small. Cut out the flip switch on the gas gets to flow up to the Ceiling remove the!